{"id":508394,"date":"2018-10-03T07:59:19","date_gmt":"2018-10-03T14:59:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/?p=508394"},"modified":"2020-04-23T15:06:55","modified_gmt":"2020-04-23T22:06:55","slug":"the-future-is-fusion-with-asta-roseway","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/podcast\/the-future-is-fusion-with-asta-roseway\/","title":{"rendered":"The future is fusion with Asta Roseway"},"content":{"rendered":"<div id=\"attachment_508484\" style=\"width: 1034px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-508484\" class=\"wp-image-508484 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-1024x576.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"576\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-1024x576.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-768x432.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-1066x600.png 1066w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-655x368.png 655w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-343x193.png 343w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-508484\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Principal Research Designer | Fusionist Asta Roseway. Photo by Maryatt Photography.<\/p><\/div>\n<h3>Episode 44, October 3, 2018<\/h3>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/people\/astar\/\">Asta Roseway<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a> has a formal title. It\u2019s Principal Research Designer in the HCI group at Microsoft Research. But she\u2019s also been described as a conductor, an alchemist, a millennial in a Gen-Xer\u2019s body and, in her own words, a fusionist. What\u2019s a fusionist, you might ask? Well, you\u2019re about to find out.<\/p>\n<p>On today\u2019s podcast, Asta gives an inside look at one of the most unconventional labs at Microsoft Research. Located at the intersection of science, technology and art, it\u2019s a lab that insists that technology, like art, should push boundaries, tell stories and feed our souls. Get ready for the unexpected because when Asta asks \u201cwhat if?\u201d you\u2019re likely to find yourself immersed in a world of responsive clothing, smart tattoos, talking plants and even environmentally sensitive\u2026 makeup!<\/p>\n<h3>Related:<\/h3>\n<ul type=\"disc\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/podcast\">Microsoft Research Podcast<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: View more podcasts on Microsoft.com<\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/microsoft-research-a-podcast\/id1318021537?mt=2\">iTunes<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: Subscribe and listen to new podcasts each week on iTunes<\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/www.blubrry.com\/feeds\/microsoftresearch.xml\">Email<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: Subscribe and listen by email<\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/subscribeonandroid.com\/www.blubrry.com\/feeds\/microsoftresearch.xml\">Android<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: Subscribe and listen on Android<\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4ndjUXyL0hH1FXHgwIiTWU\">Spotify<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: Listen on Spotify<\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/www.blubrry.com\/feeds\/microsoftresearch.xml\">RSS feed<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a class=\"msr-external-link glyph-append glyph-append-open-in-new-tab glyph-append-xsmall\" href=\"https:\/\/note.microsoft.com\/ww-registration-microsoft-research-newsletter-s.html?wt.mc_id=S-webpage_podcast\">Microsoft Research Newsletter<span class=\"sr-only\"> (opens in new tab)<\/span><\/a>: Sign up to receive the latest news from Microsoft Research<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<hr \/>\n<h3>TRANSCRIPT<\/h3>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I crossed paths with somebody who worked at Microsoft Research who was working in virtual reality. And I didn\u2019t even know what that was. I didn\u2019t even know what email was. And he invited me to come in and see this world. And I remember they had me log in as an avatar and run across the world and be interviewed by other avatars. This was at Microsoft Research. In 1997. And they were like, are you interested in building worlds with us? And I was like, I don\u2019t even understand what is happening right now. But I want to. Yes, of course.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: You\u2019re listening to the Microsoft Research Podcast, a show that brings you closer to the cutting-edge of technology research and the scientists behind it. I\u2019m your host, Gretchen Huizinga.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Asta Roseway <em>has<\/em> a formal title. It\u2019s Principal Research Designer in the HCI group at Microsoft Research. But she\u2019s also been described as a conductor, an alchemist, a millennial in a Gen-Xer\u2019s body and, in her own words, a fusionist. What\u2019s a fusionist, you might ask? Well, you\u2019re about to find out.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>On today\u2019s podcast, Asta gives an inside look at one of the most unconventional labs at Microsoft Research. Located at the intersection of science, technology and art, it\u2019s a lab that insists that technology, like art, should push boundaries, tell stories and feed our souls. Get ready for the unexpected because when Asta asks \u201cwhat if?\u201d you\u2019re likely to find yourself immersed in a world of responsive clothing, smart tattoos, talking plants and even environmentally sensitive\u2026 makeup! That and much more on this episode of the Microsoft Research Podcast.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Asta Roseway, welcome to the podcast.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Thank you, thank you for having me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: I\u2019m excited to have you here today.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I am, too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: And I actually don\u2019t like using the word excited.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Oh!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: It\u2019s the new amazing. Everything is exciting? Nothing\u2019s exciting\u2026 but I really am excited.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Exactly. Yay!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, your official title is Principle Research Designer in the HCI Group at Microsoft Research but you also call yourself a fusionist. So, what is a fusionist? What does a fusionist do, and what gets a fusionist up in the morning?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: All right, so I have always been a bit of an outlier, my whole life, and I\u2019ve never been very comfortable with formal labels. And I have found that that some of the roles and the paths that I have been on have been so unconventional that I feel like I needed a title to actually help me explain it to myself. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Totally.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: And so, I find myself working between disciplines and fields. I\u2019m coming at it from a sort of an art brain, but I\u2019ve been in computer science for almost fifteen years. And I\u2019m like, how do I pull all of these things together? And I\u2019m like, \u201cfusion\u201d \u2013 I \u201cfuse\u201d things together. That is my process. So, I wanted something where I can just say, in a quick elevator pitch, \u201cHey, I\u2019m a fusionist. That\u2019s what I do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: And the next question is\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: And let them suffer with it, right? Like, let them figure it out!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Does anyone ever ask you, \u201cWhat\u2019s a fusionist?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah, they do all the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: You got that down\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: But the thing is, is they kind of get it. I\u2019m like, it\u2019s art, it\u2019s tech, it\u2019s science. I\u2019m pulling all of these aspects together, to sort of push this next wave and they go, \u201cOh, ok, yeah.\u201d And I\u2019ve had a lot of young folks go, \u201cI would like to be a fusionist, too.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: You situate your research, actually, at the intersection of art, technology and science. Which is a super interesting intersection, as far as I\u2019m concerned. What big questions might we come closer to answering, or big problems that we might come closer to solving, if we live at that intersection?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I like this question. You know, we have two hemispheres to our brain. We have the right and the left. It\u2019s there for a reason. It formulates the holistic picture of who we are and how we function in the world. I feel like, without that balance, we can\u2019t approach the next wave of problems being 100% mindful about it. And if you only paint a picture with a certain palette of colors, you\u2019re just missing out on the rest of the spectrum that\u2019s there to be used. So, for me, it\u2019s like, this is an opportunity to take on the really hard things: climate change, environmental impacts that we have, even humanities and how we can integrate that other part of ourselves to actually start tackling these hard problems.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: How are you finding that to be received by this very computational, STEM-oriented, math-privileged culture that you\u2019re in?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Well to me, I\u2019m kind of like a weeble-wobble, ok? The harder you push me, the harder I push back. And I love the challenge. And I actually find inspiration in inspiring my colleagues, and people around me, to also open up that part of their brain, you know? That side of themselves that\u2019s like oh, you know if you take it from this perspective, it\u2019s so different. And all a sudden, the traditional obstacles kind of melt away, because you\u2019re kind of coming at it from a different angle. So, to me, I take great pleasure in helping my colleagues join in in that conversation and encouraging them to cross-collaborate and try it from a different angle. So, I\u2019m ok with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Now I\u2019ve got \u201cweebles wobble but they don\u2019t fall down\u201d stuck in my head\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: The song, actually.<\/strong> <strong>Probably dates me. Ummm\u2026 Are you seeing a shift in receptivity to this kind of thinking?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah, I am. I would actually say that in the last five years, things have really shifted in a way that has enabled me to continue this work, to grow this platform. I\u2019ve also seen it in the waves of young people, in interns coming in. They kind of come at it from the same mind set. So, I feel like I\u2019m finding my kindred spirits. It just feels so reinforcing, you know? Just, oh, this feels good! They get it! And they want it and they want to know how to do it. So, I feel like we\u2019re kind of inspiring each other, which is fascinating, and I see more and more of them coming in as the years roll by.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: What about the \u201cnot new\u201d people, but the \u201cold school,\u201d you know\u2026?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Hey, look, everyone has their place and their function and their purpose, and that is totally fine. For me, I have my own way of coming into a conversation and a project. And I encourage them to get ready for this next generation, because this next generation is a different breed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: It actually is.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: It\u2019s an entirely different breed. So, if they come to me, my colleagues say, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got this hybrid intern\u2026\u201d Send them to me. I\u2019ll talk with them. Let\u2019s figure out a way for them to kind of integrate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Lots of research begins with the question \u201cwhat if?\u201d But when you ask it\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: It\u2019s <em>really<\/em> what if!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: It is. It often ends up in sort of what you\u2019d call unconventional explorations of human computer interaction. So, what\u2019s different about how you approach technology research? What\u2019s different about when you ask, \u201cWhat if?\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Ok, I\u2019ll use this analogy. For me, the \u201cwhat if\u201d is like me jumping out of an airplane. I have no idea where I\u2019m going to land. I just know I want to get out of the airplane. I want to jump, and I want to give it a shot. And that means that, you know, in traditional research you know, you work on sort of these iterations of learnings and understandings. For me, it\u2019s been more about, ok, I see this trend over here, and then this thing is happening over here, but these things have never met in the middle. So, what if they do? What happens then? And so that\u2019s the driver. I just feel like I want to be a magnet and just, kind of, bring both sides together.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: You established Microsoft\u2019s first ever Artist in Residence program, called Studio 99. And I have to ask, why do we need artists in high tech research?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: (laughs) Ok, so, first of all, let\u2019s pull this back. Why do we need art? That feeds our soul, right? Art has been with us since the beginning of time. It tells stories and narratives and creates memories and it fuels that side of us. It lives in each one of us. And so why wouldn\u2019t it be a part of our tech and our research culture? It has to be. It\u2019s a part of that dance that we have to have with that other side of ourselves so that we can ask these questions like, \u201cWell, how does this impact our society? How does this impact the individual? How does this technology impact our privacy?\u201d And art has this way of just shoving it in our faces and really asking the hard questions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, what kinds of things are happening in the Artist in Residence program here?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: In the past, we did something around, if you think of Internet of Things, and how our environment is sort of moving towards this world where things are talking to each other, whether it\u2019s devices like my car, or my refrigerator, we wanted to go way beyond that. So, we wanted to do human to plants, human to interspecies. And why not? I mean, artists are the ones that are like, of course we should be able to talk to plants and animals! Isn\u2019t that what technology should facilitate, right? Wouldn\u2019t that enable us to have healthier conversations with our environment? So, we did a project called Project Florence, which was the brainchild of Helene Steiner, who had a background in plant signaling and design, and her approach was, \u201cI want to make plants respond to us. I want what we say to impact them in some way.\u201d We have done some explorations with computer-generated art and sort of playing with the way algorithms can sort of manifest the art. My very favorite is, we had a young woman come in with a background with bio-fabrication. And that is sort of the emergence of new materials from living matter. And so, she had a passion around mushrooms and mycelium cultures. And she actually grew her wedding dress out of mycelium. And I was like, \u201cYeah, let\u2019s do this.\u201d Uh, her name was Erin Smith. You should look her up. She\u2019s pretty sweet. So, she came in and worked with us on something called growables. Like, why wouldn\u2019t the next wave of the things on our bodies be alive? It was SO out there, it was like something out of a David Cronenberg film, but I loved it because it made people just stop for a minute and go, \u201cWait a second. So, wearables don\u2019t have to be plastic. They don\u2019t have to be driven by a battery. They can be alive, they can be on us.\u201d I loved it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: How did it work out? Did she actually grow a mushroom wedding dress, a fungus dress? Sorry.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, she grew the dress on her own time. Like this was before she came and worked with us. But she ended up actually growing these amulets into Petri dishes and we displayed them. And for me it was so great to see my colleagues, my peers just come and look at this stuff and go, \u201cOh my gosh. Like, I hadn\u2019t even thought of this.\u201d That\u2019s why we have these kind of programs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So as soon as you said that she was growing mushrooms to do a dress, I thought well, she\u2019ll grow them and then pick them and make the dress. Somewhat like Lady Gaga\u2019s meat dress, but you\u2019re taking about it being a living thing.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah, so there\u2019s two facets to that. One is, her approach was, she wanted to create a material from the mycelium itself that would then be decomposed, right? Because wedding dresses are made of polyester and they\u2019re just adding to the landfill. So, she wanted to kind of change that paradigm. The second part of it is, there is this whole world of new materials that we are just beginning to understand on the micro level. Even on the chemistry level. And these are sort of the next wave of like the intelligence and how it permeates into our everyday lives. It\u2019s pretty cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>(music plays)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Asta, we can\u2019t do justice to the visual nature of the work you do on a podcast. Although maybe your group could get to work on that, too\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Right! I\u2019m on it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: All kinds of things are going through my head right now. But I\u2019ll encourage our listeners to hit up the website and look you up, because it\u2019s amazing stuff.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: But let\u2019s dig into a few of the projects that typify your work. Starting with what\u2019s been called your breakthrough design. It was Microsoft\u2019s first fashion technology piece. It won Best in Show at the International Symposium of Wearable Computers. I didn\u2019t even know there was one. And was featured at CES, South by Southwest and New York Fashion Week. Tell us about The Printing Dress.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Ahhh. The Printing Dress. I love this. You know, I had reached a place in my career where I had been working as a sort of user experience designer, and I felt like everything I did was stuck in a square. And I kind of had this weird crisis of like, how do I get out of this box? And so, I remember I was doing just some internet browsing and I came across this piece from Philips Research. It was this mood dress. It was so beautiful and inspiring. There was something deep in me that was like, yessss. And I couldn\u2019t even articulate to anyone like what was going on with that. I was just like, this is great. I want more of this. How do I do this? And so, I decided, you know, I have a background in design. I\u2019ve done some sewing in the past, like, ahhh, give it a shot. I partnered up with a colleague of mine, Sheridan Martin Small, who had a background in engineering. And we got together, and we just thought, let\u2019s just do this. What\u2019s the worst that can happen? We just pulled together extra time. We built this dress. We submitted it to this symposium and all I wanted to do was just manifest. That was the goal. It wasn\u2019t even beyond that. It was like, can we just take something from 2-D to 3-D? And that\u2019s how it started. And it\u2019s been a rabbit hole ever since. And I\u2019m grateful for it. So grateful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Well tell me about it. Because when you say The Printing Dress, and I\u2019ve seen some pictures of it in an article, is it a printing or printed or\u2026?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah so, it\u2019s a dress made entirely of paper. And that\u2019s by design. And it looks like something out of the 1900s. So, it has a very retro feel to it. Very Victorian. It\u2019s got a capacitive keyboard corset that\u2019s kind of built into the bodice and it enables people to actually type and Tweet their feelings and thoughts. And as they do, we had a projector set up underneath it that would actually display all the thoughts and animate as memories. So, the goal of the dress was to speak to the notion of what happens when accountability and privacy and wearable technology and social networks\u2026 they all sort of meet in the middle. Like, if you talk trash, you wear trash, you know? That was the message. It\u2019s kind of relevant today, don\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: More so, now, than ever. You know, every day it gets more and more relevant.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Right. It was really supposed to be a thought piece, but also, it was my wish to actually bring something like that to Microsoft. Like, I wanted a dress to exist inside the building. Why not?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Another wearable project you did was called Lightwear. And this was an exploration in wearable light therapy. Tell us about that project. What was the rationale behind it? What happened with it, and what were the research takeaways from that experience?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, Lightwear was a project that I worked on with an intern by the name of Halley Profita. And she and I were really interested in this intersection between wellness and wearables and where is this sweet spot? And so, we were both pretty cognizant of the fact that you know, Seasonable Affective Disorder is really a thing, and it really does impact millions of people. And we wanted to explore the light that was coming out of these light boxes and just get rid of the box. Again, my issue with squares! And I was like, can we just get the light out of here and put it in something else? And that began to kind of instantiate as scarves, glasses or hats, and we used the same light spectrum from the box into the garments but we just had lower intensity. So, a standard light box, you might sit in front of for 30 minutes because it has a very high intensity. For the scarf, you might wrap it around yourself and you\u2019ll get the light from the fiber optics inside the scarf, but at a lower intensity, so you might wear it for two hours, or an hour on the bus. But we wanted something that frees you and untethers you from the box. And you can, sort of, transcend that feeling of, uhhhg, I\u2019m stuck behind a box. So, you want to use fashion as sort of this way to escalate and make people feel good while they\u2019re getting healed. What a concept!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, what happened?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, we worked on several instantiations of it. We did user studies, we got a lot of great feedback from people who actually really loved it, and we were able to, sort of, do a publication in pervasive health and it actually got best paper. So that was amazing. And then from there, you know, it\u2019s one of those kind of projects where you might have an expectation for how it should evolve and be received, and yet, it\u2019s all about the timing. Are people collectively ready to grab onto a concept like this? I don\u2019t know. And it didn\u2019t seem so at the time, but I promise you, you will see things like this in the future.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: I believe it. Was it the people who suffered from Seasonable Affective Disorder that weren\u2019t ready to receive it? Or the people who were looking at the people wearing a light-up scarf?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: It might\u2019ve been both. It\u2019s really hard to say. You know that\u2019s the challenging thing about trying to ride the wave a little bit ahead of the curve. Like, you just don\u2019t know how things will be received and you don\u2019t know if it was, you know, are people just feeling a little bit like that\u2019s too much attention drawn on themselves? Because it\u2019s not like you see people wearing light around themselves, ever. So, there\u2019s a lot of things to consider with that. But it was a fascinating project.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: One of the coolest things you\u2019re working on is called DuoSkin, or Smart Tattoos, which is literally wearable technology that becomes part of your skin. Tell us about Smart Tattoos, including the history with MIT Media Lab, and the very recent mini-hackathon you hosted called Hackatat.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, DuoSkin was started at Microsoft Research with my intern Cindy Kao from the Media Lab. It was really sort of an interesting approach to the e-tattoos that we had seen sort of surfacing. And e-tattoos are more medicinal. They\u2019re sort of very, very high end. They\u2019re built in laboratories and they might be something sort of something that you put on a patient to sort of monitor a pulse. But these kind of technologies are just impossible to get a hold of, and they\u2019re very black box in how they\u2019re made. So we thought, let\u2019s just take that notion of smart, temporary, transitory technologies and we fuse that together\u2026 I\u2019m using that word!&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Love it.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: \u2026with jewelry and accessories and all of the jewelry tattoos that were starting to come onto the market at the time. And we think back, specifically, to Beyonce\u2019s launch of her jewelry tattoos and we were completely inspired. So, we were like, how do you take something beautiful like this and give it purpose and functionality? And that was the origin of DuoSkin and how that came about. And since then, at Microsoft Research, we\u2019ve been actually working on the next generation of materials, ways that we can enable people to fabricate and build their own. And so, we\u2019re looking into ways we can create kits. And that was what sort of brought about the Hackathon and the Hackatat, where we invited people from across the company and build these tattoos, play with them, give us feedback and sort of help us along the journey, because we can\u2019t think of every scenario. And so, the feedback was just wonderful. It was completely eye-opening.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: What kinds of people showed up at the Hackatat?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I would say millennials. Again, with the young people. Um, you know, they were just super excited, to just you know think outside of the box. Controllers don\u2019t have to be standard controls. I can make anything interactive. I can put a sticker on my water bottle and have it do something for me, or I can put something on my clothes and all a sudden it has a purpose. So, I think they loved the creative expressivity of it. But also, just the freedom of thinking outside of that norm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, give me an example of what, if I put a Smart Tattoo on my arm, what\u2019s my interface? Do I work the tattoo from my device or do I work my device from the tattoo or is there no device or what?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, the tattoo is connected to a small microprocessor that has a small battery. And then we use a Bluetooth radio to connect to the devices. So, you can connect it to anything with Bluetooth. And that\u2019s where the creativity and the scenarios come in, right? And that\u2019s why we wanted to get it into people\u2019s hands to let them dream big and think of the things they wanted to do with it. Because we can\u2019t think of it all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: We talked about this a little, but I want to go a little deeper. Thinking about the Internet of Things, and obviously, when we think of it, we think of being able to communicate with our devices or having our devices communicate with each other which is slightly more scary, if you ask me.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: But your thinking is different even from there and you alluded to Project Florence where you did a \u201cDr. Dolittle\u201d kind of thing only with flora not fauna. Tell us little bit more about that \u201cout-there\u201d thinking. And are there any other sort of Internet of Things ideas percolating that you\u2019re allowed to talk to us about?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah, you know, again like part of my \u201csecret agenda\u201d is I\u2019m always excited to make people feel slightly uncomfortable and nervous about a new sort of story that\u2019s unfolding in front of them. And I know we had chatted about this a little earlier about storytelling and how important it is that you have the right voices in the room to actually start to tell a different kind of story about our future. And the drive and the inspiration for Florence was, what if we were able to sort of tell a story where we were interfacing with our plants, our animals, our environment in a way that actually raises awareness about what is going on with it and what we can learn from it? Because nature is this incredible entity that is so infinitely complex it makes your head spin. And yet it all kind of works, magically. And there\u2019s so much to emulate from that. And I want to drive these new narratives for people that don\u2019t resonate with the current one. I want people to wake up in the morning and say, \u201cOh my gosh. I had never thought the future like this.\u201d And that actually resonates with the way I feel about it. And I want to tell my story, too. So that\u2019s a lot of the driving factor behind this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, we started out talking about technology and fashion, in this \u201cprojects\u201d part of the podcast. Let\u2019s wrap up on this section with technology in makeup. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Right!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Tell us about this project called EarthTones. What is it? Why would we need it? And where might it lead us?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I love this. This is one of my near and dear. It\u2019s one of those kind of quieter projects that kind of lives under the radar that has been slowly growing on its own, but the idea is, is we put things on our body every day. You know, whether it\u2019s shampoo, it\u2019s cream, whatnot. And why wouldn\u2019t we enable these things to act as notifications? As sensors? Things that would raise our awareness about what we\u2019re being exposed to on a daily basis. And UV is a perfect example. So, every day, we get exposed to UV levels, whether it\u2019s cloudy or not. And what if we had a way that things on our face or our hair could change color, could enable us to actually see the impact of this exposure, to understand that there\u2019s a threshold that we shouldn\u2019t go beyond? What I loved about the EarthTones was it was a very earnest attempt to show the unseen in a way that could manifest in everyday, habitual practices, by people all over the world. And I loved the analog, color-changing nature of it. It was something that you could do without batteries. And I love that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, tell me what it is.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, essentially, EarthTones was the idea of blush powders that could then turn deeper shades of color depending on how much exposure you were getting from carbon monoxide or UV rays. So, it was sort of like watching your face change in pigments throughout the course of the day. And a lot of people would say, \u201cI don\u2019t want my face changing color in front of people.\u201d And then a lot of people would say, \u201cI\u2019m ok with that, actually. It\u2019s kind of punk rock. I love it. I kind of want to like, make a statement.\u201d And then there\u2019s this other part of it that is about the awareness. Like, I didn\u2019t know that we were being exposed to this much every day. How is that impacting my health? These are the things we don\u2019t think about until we\u2019re sick. So how do we give out this sort of slow awakening of things that we just do every day to something that can say, \u201cMaybe it\u2019s time for you to consider how you\u2019re going to take care of yourself.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Right. So, what about future applications and thinkings about what we put on ourselves as sensors?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: I am excited about programmable materials. I\u2019m excited about the promises that chemistry brings. I\u2019m excited about creating intelligent layers on things that normally would be completely missed by everyday people. And that\u2019s that element of shock and surprise. When it\u2019s not powered by a battery, it\u2019s profound.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, one of my favorite aphorisms is that when scientists make a really important discovery, they don\u2019t say, \u201cEureka!\u201d they say, \u201cThat\u2019s strange\u2026\u201d And by now, I\u2019m kind of like, that must be what Asta says all day, every day\u2026 But whether that\u2019s true or not, what\u2019s the strangest thing that you\u2019ve discovered as a fusionist here at MSR?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: The strangest thing\u2026 I\u2026 I am going to have to go back to the mushrooms. I mean, seriously. Growing wearable amulets in Petri dishes was pretty far on the spectrum for me. It was definitely considering spores from mushrooms possibly getting out, just ways to sort of manage the life-force of these things\u2026 still remains the most out-there thing I have ever dipped my toes into. But I have no regrets at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Well, I will say this, having seen many of the videos on your page, on the Microsoft Research website, there\u2019s a lot of out-there stuff that you\u2019ve seen and been a part, of so that\u2019s pretty cool.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: But my threshold for out-there is pretty high. So, this is why, if you see the other stuff I consider normal, the stuff that really makes my head noodle is\u2026 still remains in a Petri dish.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: I hear you. Because I\u2019m way over on the other side of the spectrum. Like weird is, you know, wearing a color. I\u2019m black and white all the time.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: We have that in common.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>(music plays)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, let\u2019s go back to labels for a minute. I think this is really important. Um, aside from \u201cfusionist\u201d some people have called you a conductor. The symphony metaphor. You\u2019ve referred to yourself as an alchemist. And one of my favorites is, \u201cI\u2019m a millennial in a gen X-er\u2019s body.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Totally.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: First of all, unpack what you mean by this a bit, and then talk about how self-conceptualization, or identity, might impact a person\u2019s perception, maybe their ability to carry out work in this industry.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Let\u2019s start with going back to the notion that I\u2019ve never been able to fit into conventional pockets. And I\u2019ve used that as a strength. And that enables me to then transcend labels. For me, it\u2019s always been, don\u2019t put me in a corner. Don\u2019t try to figure it out. Because I\u2019m still trying to figure it out. And I laugh about the millennial thing because I have never been in this line of work to get the big things that people think are important. I live a pretty minimal life. And I feel like what moves me, what drives me, is to make change. And I think the millennials get that. And I think they want that, too. And I am not inspired by the big promotions. I\u2019m not inspired by the big titles. I just want change. And so, I\u2019ll just do whatever it takes. I will rattle any cage to make that happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: I ask all my guests this question, and I\u2019ll ask you too. Given the breadth of what you do, and the general landscape of the industry, is there anything that keeps you up at night?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Oh! There is <em>so<\/em> much that keeps me up at night! There\u2019s kind of two folds to that question. The first is, that feeling that change isn\u2019t happening fast enough. You push, push, push, push. You do everything you can. Is it enough? Is it enough? Like, are we going to be able to dig ourselves out from all these things that present these challenges to us, collectively? Those things keep me up at night. And you try to think to yourself, today, how can I push the needle a little bit more? So that\u2019s one aspect of it. And then, the other aspect is that you just hope that whatever it is that you bring and push will actually change something, fundamentally, in a way that transcends all your hopes. That you really change someone\u2019s life in a profound way. And maybe it\u2019s just the fact that I\u2019m here, that is inspiring a next wave of young people to consider a path in their career. If that\u2019s the legacy I leave and it\u2019s not a product or it\u2019s not a technology, then, I\u2019ll take it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, that\u2019s a perfect segue into my last question, as we wrap up. You\u2019re part of a relatively small tribe here at Microsoft Research, in that computer science isn\u2019t your background or your training. So, what was your education path and how did you end up here at Microsoft Research? What does it say to people who might not assume there\u2019s a place for them in high tech?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Yeah, I love this. So, my path was traditional design. I mean I grew up in a family of artists and musicians. We didn\u2019t even have a traditional working desk in the house. I mean everybody was just either making music or art. So, of course, I found my way into graphic design, and I went to Parson\u2019s School of Design. And my initial goal was to end up, you know, maybe in a big design company, maybe working in marketing or advertising. And it was the most bizarre thing. Another rabbit hole situation, where I crossed paths with somebody who worked at Microsoft Research who was working in virtual reality. And at the time, you have to think of this, it was the mid-90s.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Oh, you\u2019re kidding.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: No. So, this was the mid-90s. He was like, we\u2019re working in virtual reality. I didn\u2019t even know what that was. I didn\u2019t even know what email was, ok? Like, I was one of the very first classes to come out with you know, having enough experience working on a computer, making art from a computer, that I could understand that there was some appeal there and he invited me to come in and see this world. And I remember they had me log in as an avatar and run across the world and be interviewed by other avatars. This was at Microsoft Research. In 1997. And they were like, are you interested in building worlds with us? And I was like, I don\u2019t even understand what is happening right now. But I want to. Yes, of course. And it\u2019s that desire, that passion, that excitement for these unknown spaces that has been the catalyst in my life. That has pushed me into these holes and they keep going deeper and I\u2019ve never looked back. And this is why I have always considered myself to be a bit of an outlier, because I end up in these situations that I can\u2019t even predict or foresee. And that\u2019s the wave I ride.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: So, what would you say to this generation? Many of whom are in undergraduate or even graduate school, that might not think, \u201cHey, high tech is a natural fit for my affinities and my abilities.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: So, part of the big motivation for the work that I do is to show them that they can play in this space. Just by the fact that I exist, and I\u2019m here doing it, it should be a signal to them that they can, too. And I take a lot of pride in showing them, hey, you know, technology and the future can look like this. It doesn\u2019t have to look like what you think it does. It can look like something you feel it does. And so, I use myself as an example. I\u2019m shameless about that. And people, you know, ping me on LinkedIn, or they send me emails and they ask me, like how? How can I do this? And I tell them two things. First is, these kind of jobs won\u2019t initially be there when you get there. You have to do it yourself. You have to build this way of working yourself. You can\u2019t expect them to know what you need and want. You have to show them. And the second is, be ready for anything. Because you may think that you don\u2019t have a role to play, but something can change, fundamentally, tomorrow that absolutely makes you critical. So, don\u2019t underestimate your own skills and your value because we don\u2019t know what the future is going to ask for.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>(music plays)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Host: Asta Roseway. Thank you.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Asta Roseway: Oh, you\u2019re so welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>To learn more about Asta Roseway and our fusionist future, visit Microsoft.com\/research<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Episode 44, October 3, 2018 &#8211; Asta Roseway gives an inside look at one of the most unconventional labs at Microsoft Research. Located at the intersection of science, technology and art, it\u2019s a lab that insists that technology, like art, should push boundaries, tell stories and feed our souls. Get ready for the unexpected because when Asta asks \u201cwhat if?\u201d you\u2019re likely to find yourself immersed in a world of responsive clothing, smart tattoos, talking plants and even environmentally sensitive\u2026 makeup!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":37583,"featured_media":508403,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"msr-url-field":"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/id\/38195065\/","msr-podcast-episode":"","msrModifiedDate":"","msrModifiedDateEnabled":false,"ep_exclude_from_search":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[240054],"tags":[],"research-area":[13559],"msr-region":[],"msr-event-type":[],"msr-locale":[268875],"msr-post-option":[],"msr-impact-theme":[],"msr-promo-type":[],"msr-podcast-series":[],"class_list":["post-508394","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-msr-podcast","msr-research-area-social-sciences","msr-locale-en_us"],"msr_event_details":{"start":"","end":"","location":""},"podcast_url":"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/id\/38195065\/","podcast_episode":"","msr_research_lab":[199565],"msr_impact_theme":[],"related-publications":[],"related-downloads":[],"related-videos":[],"related-academic-programs":[],"related-groups":[371909,441990,615681,669339,916890],"related-projects":[508880,373529,280394],"related-events":[],"related-researchers":[],"msr_type":"Post","featured_image_thumbnail":"<img width=\"960\" height=\"540\" src=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788.png\" class=\"img-object-cover\" alt=\"The Future is Fusion with Asta Roseway podcast\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788.png 2800w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-768x432.png 768w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-1024x576.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-1066x600.png 1066w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-655x368.png 655w, https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/uploads\/prod\/2018\/09\/PodcastAstaRoseway_Multi_08_2018_1400x788-343x193.png 343w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 960px) 100vw, 960px\" \/>","byline":"","formattedDate":"October 3, 2018","formattedExcerpt":"Episode 44, October 3, 2018 - Asta Roseway gives an inside look at one of the most unconventional labs at Microsoft Research. Located at the intersection of science, technology and art, it\u2019s a lab that insists that technology, like art, should push boundaries, tell stories&hellip;","locale":{"slug":"en_us","name":"English","native":"","english":"English"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/508394"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/37583"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=508394"}],"version-history":[{"count":9,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/508394\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":543384,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/508394\/revisions\/543384"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/508403"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=508394"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-research-area","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/research-area?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-region","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-region?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-event-type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-event-type?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-locale","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-locale?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-post-option","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-post-option?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-impact-theme","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-impact-theme?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-promo-type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-promo-type?post=508394"},{"taxonomy":"msr-podcast-series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.microsoft.com\/en-us\/research\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/msr-podcast-series?post=508394"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}